Teaching of English in Italian Schools

Well, not that I am so good at speaking(or writing) English, but...

Have you ever seen the English schoolbooks, used to teach it?
They're full of mistakes about vocabulary, and grammar errors as well. And let alone the teachers. I had two teachers, during secondary school, and none of them really knew the language. The one that I had for literature, never explained (or rather knew, now that I think about it) Walt Whitman, that I asked her to explain(he's one of most important poets in American literature), and I had to explain it myself to the classroom! And all the other Authors we never studied... Byron, Percy Bysshe and Mary Shelley, Woolf...

I'm not surprised that italian people(in general) wouldn't speak english well, if even their teachers didn't.

Just to link to the 'students' protest' topic...

As I told you before, Rasp, I haven't the written test with me, so I can't show you the exact phrase, anyway, it was as complex as the phrase up there, in the quote.
For you, that surely speak and write english better than I do, what could be a good method to teach it at schools?

The best way to improve english control on Italian students is to force any television network to broadcast movies and soap operas in original languages (with subtitles). At first a lot of people will disagree, as it's uncomfortable, but anybody have a daily exercise. There are several countries with it. And you see astonishing achievements.

holubice ha scritto:The best way to improve english control on Italian students is to force any television network to broadcast movies and soap operas in original languages (with subtitles). At first a lot of people will disagree, as it's uncomfortable, but anybody have a daily exercise. There are several countries with it. And you see astonishing achievements.

I totally agree. But, in schools, what could be a solution(other than firing incompetent teachers)?

Werewolf ha scritto:

Well, not that I am so good at speaking(or writing) English, but...

Have you ever seen the English schoolbooks,used to teach it?
They're full of mistakes about vocabulary, and grammar errors as well. And let alone the teachers. I had two teachers, during secondary school, and none of them really knew the language. The one that I had for literature, never explained (or rather knew, now that I think about it) Walt Whitman, that I asked her to explain(he's one of most important poets in American literature), and I had to explain it myself to the classroom! And all the other Authors we never studied... Byron, Percy Bysshe and Mary Shelley, Woolf...

I'm not surprised that italian people(in general) wouldn't speak english well, if even their teachers didn't.

Just to link to the 'students' protest' topic...

As I told you before, Rasp, I haven't the written test with me, so I can't show you the exact phrase, anyway, it was as complex as the phrase up there, in the quote.
For you, that surely speak and write english better than I do, what could be a good method to teach it at schools?

Werewolf, despite the comments above with which I frankly disagree (Except for Holu), it looks obvious that the above text has not been written like a native speaker would, but I do not believe that the purpose should be that, either. Aside from a couple of slight imperfections I do not see any major mistake.

I have bold-printed the passages where I would use either a different word or a different form:

- It is only a comma, but it can change the sense; take it out, and what you mean becomes clear.

- The second comma is also redundant

- You don't explain anything to a classroom (I hope), but to your schoolmates/the students/the audience a.s.o a.s.f.

- It is not wrong, but in my opinion inappropriate. I'd use e.g. "learned about"

- In the commonly used language, that is a "Sentence". "Phrase" has more the meaning of "Espressione", "Articolazione" and the like.

To finish, and reply to your last question, since I am no teacher, and even though I have a degree in languages, I barely have a clue about teaching methods. Holu's suggestion surely makes sense, and because I think that your drive on the English language is quite above average I suggest you something I did myself in the past and helped a lot: try reading books. Read books in original language, starting with books you already read in Italian. This is also suitable for a classroom

Thanks, Rasp. Truly.

About reading books, well, I read English literature (mostly poetry) in original language. And, with what holu said, watching movies in original, it really helps a lot.

Werewolf ha scritto:Thanks, Rasp. Truly.

You're welcome. Please bear in mind that what I commented is only my opinion, based on my experience, and you will most probably find teachers and even books that contraddict it...beyond a certain point, it becomes a matter of taste.

Werewolf ha scritto:About reading books, well, I read English literature (mostly poetry) in original language. And, with what holu said, watching movies in original, it really helps a lot.

Another trick I suggest young people is to let run the TV. On CNN or anything of the like, whatever you do and without paying any attention. As far as you don't bother anybody by doing it, sooner or later you will start understanding more and more what is said without actually listening; at this point, you can start listening what you're interested in. And if you still didn't, check out the couple of clips I posted in this section.
Good training for the ears

Werewolf ha scritto:
Thanks, Rasp. Truly.
About reading books, well, I read English literature (mostly poetry) in original language. And, with what holu said, watching movies in original, it really helps a lot.

Wolf, pay attention at these good advices:

1. Download and install on your computer Firefox
   
2. Open 'Tools' --> Add-ons --> Search 'Google Toolbar'
   
3. Close and Re-Open Firefox
   
4. Open an english website (ex: BBC News)
   
5. Fly over any word in your browser, wait a sencond and instantly a box with translation in Italian language will appear (so you can read easily, no boring with dictionary)
   
6. Read news everyday in english (you have exercise and you know events have desapeared in this country... )
   
7. Listen at a English Radio every day
   
8. Download these podcasts on BBC (BBC Podcasts) There's plently of interesting reports on any kind of subjects (History, Science, Music, Politics...)
   
9. Copy those files on your mobile phone and listen at them whenever you can
   

You can't trust teachers here. Many of then are fucked sponsored
Ah! Why not to type in an English atheist forum for a while?...

Happy Atheists

In Firefox it's possible also to emphasize any wrong word you type in english (so you correct them immediatly) but I have to check out on my home laptop how to.

Unfortunately, I can't watch TV, at least not English or American channels and I completely refuse to listen to the radio( I hate it). For those who can, it's a good advise anyway.

Holubice, don't worry too much about my english. Personally, I can understand almost(almost ) anything I read or listen to. My question was about schools and for my job(I make extra lessons to students of elementary and middle schools). About teachers here... Sad to agree with you about them.


Now I have to go. Gotta make some extra lessons to one of my students ...

OT:
Wolf, leggere i libri e dover continuamente cercare parole su un dizionario è snervante. Se aggiungi quell' ADD-ONS che ti ho detto, leggi tutte le pagine in inglese come un treno e impari in brevissimo tempo. Anzi, ti verrà naturale leggere prima un giornale inglese piuttosto che uno italiano. E comunque è utile anche in seguito perchè, per quanto tu possa migliorare, incontrerai sempre termini sconosciuti.
Ti ho consigliato i servizi podcast (scaricabili) della BBC perchè sono tagliati per un pubblico mondiale. Pronunciano in modo impeccabile, parlano lentamente, e non dicono quasi mai cretinate come in RAI...

Ludwig von Drake ha scritto:

Rasputin ha scritto:Another trick I suggest young people is to let run the TV. On CNN or anything of the like, whatever you do and without paying any attention. As far as you don't bother anybody by doing it, sooner or later you will start understanding more and more what is said without actually listening; at this point, you can start listening what you're interested in. And if you still didn't, check out the couple of clips I posted in this section.
Good training for the ears

I do not agree, I think that if you don't listen to, it will be not useful.

It may not work with some learning types, but it does work well with the majority, especially young people. In the long run, words you know but you're not used to hear and therefore you don't understand make their way into your mind...Furthermore, it was a suggestion to use aside the regular methods, not instead of

@Holu: excellent tip!

Rasputin ha scritto:
@Holu: excellent tip!

A long time ago, high school 'age', I met a pretty blonde girl on the seaside. To impress her I said: "This summer I wanna have wineserf lessons".
She said: "You must have so much!"
Me: "So much what?"
She: "Wine, when you can serf with it, you are plently of wine."

Then I realized how poor was my prononciation and skill. And I realized I had to tackle by myself.

holubice ha scritto:

Rasputin ha scritto:
@Holu: excellent tip!

A long time ago, high school 'age', I met a pretty blonde girl on the seaside. To impress her I said: "This summer I wanna have wineserf lessons".
She said: "You must have so much!"
Me: "So much what?"
She: "Wine, when you can serf with it, you are plently of wine."

Then I realized how poor was my prononciation and skill. And I realized I had to tackle by myself.

Main thing is, you made it to tackle her, have you?

Rasputin ha scritto:

holubice ha scritto:
Then I realized how poor was my prononciation and skill. And I realized I had to tackle by myself.

Main thing is, you made it to tackle her, have you?

I accomplished any duty.

holubice ha scritto:

Rasputin ha scritto:

holubice ha scritto:
Then I realized how poor was my prononciation and skill. And I realized I had to tackle by myself.

Main thing is, you made it to tackle her, have you?

I accomplished any duty.

Really? Did you take her for dinner afterwards as well?

Rasputin ha scritto:
Really? Did you take her for dinner afterwards as well?

I picked her to my family house (condominium). And I said her:
"Arita, Italy doesn't work as your country... you have to be very sober when you... lodge your mates...

... so that building over there, at 'N'th floor is my flat. I enter alone and you, after 15 minutes, get there and ring my bell"

Nevertheless all my tricks, the 'cats' disclosed my plans.

I love cats





































...baked

By the way, to whom the cats disclosed your plans?

And: "Nevertheless all my tricks"

Perhaps you meant "In spite of all my tricks"

Well, anybody as realized what I mean.
To be back in topic, if I was in a english teacher's shoes, I would emphasize to mu pupils I'm not teaching a dead language as Latin or ancient Greek. I had a French teacher that, as soon as we were barely able to write a sentence, she got us in touch with pen friends in France and she forced us to write them as many letters as possible. No caring for blunders on those letters. There's no better subjetc to spur student than english.

holubice ha scritto:Well, anybody as realized what I mean.

As from the title, this section's second name is "language gym" which means anybody is entitled to start arguing with anybody else about spelling, grammars, etc.

The above quoted sentence makes no sense

holubice ha scritto:To be back in topic,

"To get back in topic"

holubice ha scritto:if I was in an english teacher's shoes, I would point out to mu pupils I'm not teaching a dead language such as Latin or ancient Greek. I had a French teacher who, as soon as we were barely able to write a sentence, she got us in touch with pen friends in France and she forced us to write them as many letters as possible. No caring for blunders on those letters. There's no better subjetc to spur student than english.

Anything can help. In my opinion, the bottom matter is making the language interesting and fun to the students, which is a valid concept for any other subject.

Lost in translation?
Don't worry, Babelfish translator could help you!

NO WAY!

Feynman ha scritto:Lost in translation?
Don't worry, Babelfish translator could help you!

NO WAY!

D'ya know where the babelfish- idea comes from, huh?

Rasputin ha scritto:

Feynman ha scritto:Lost in translation?
Don't worry, Babelfish translator could help you!

NO WAY!

D'ya know where the babelfish- idea comes from, huh?

Did you see where I come from (my profile, I mean)?

Feynman ha scritto:
Did you see where I come from (my profile, I mean)?

Heck, I missed that

You should know this website then

Yep!
But... somehow I feel strange!
It's just like depression, I wonder how this could be happened to me?!